I know many atheist hate the fact that if they was to believe in God and followed him; they would be forced into worshiping a "self centered God" who only desire is to be worshiped.
BUT....
Could you imagine for a moment that when the first creation of God's came into being it wasn't created to worship him but to be his companion. When the creation recognized the creators great love and great strength and great power the creation worshiped him because he was worthy of worship. In the society of Heaven, things are run justly and true and the population of Heaven worship the creator because he was worthy of worship.
When God created Earth and created beings made of flesh, spirit, and soul and he created them perfectly as companions. They were a new perfect beings put over the Angels. God is just and righteous and loving and the Angels understood this and they worshiped him. Well, all but a few. Satan grew jealous at these new creations and caused them to sin against God. So now you can understand that all of God's creations have a free will.
This new sin caused an eternal stain upon all future generations. Just as genetics pass on physical traits, genetics of the soul pass on the eternal sin.
God didn't make Hell for mankind he made it for Satan. God didn't create the lake of fire, Satan did it for God's creations that he hates and envies so very much. Hell is a absence of God, so what ever Satan does there isn't for or against God's will since God isn't there because it is Hell. God doesn't govern the punishments of Hell, Satan does because he hates you. But soon God will turn it around and Satan will be in his created torment come judgment day.
My goal isn't to condemn you into accepting God. What I want to do is show you the true meaning of Christianity. By showing you God's unfailing love and to try and put the desire in you to know Jesus Christ. And I'm hoping that through this style of witnessing you will want to accept God for who he really is and not out of fear of Hell. Because I think when you try to scare some people into accepting God you force some people to turn away in hate, in spite, in shame, in anger, in remorse, in jealousy, in envy, in many many ways. This creates a tough barrier to overcome for everyone in the future and the person of concern. Fear is not the reason to follow Jesus.
John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him
John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
John 3:20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
John 3:21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.
Please understand John 3:20 "Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed"
God-Already-Knows-Your-Sins.
You don't have to be ashamed of who you are to come to Christ. God will forgive you and that shame will become your tool of strength.
Please think about what I am telling you. God never forced any creation of his to do anything. He ask and we answer willingly because He is Just and Righteous and Worthy of Worship.
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Now I know I'm fishing in Ray Comfort's pond and I really love and admire his work at Way of the Master. But it doesn't work for everyone and that being mostly hard line atheist. So please give me a chance to show you and talk with you about our Creator. I've got a website at www.definitiveproof.org with open forums that everyone is more than welcome to visit.
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Could you please site the verse that states that humans were created to be God's companions? We have just finished reading the first 17 chapters of Genesis at wearersmrt.com and I don't recall reading that.
ReplyDeleteI have a hard time understanding how humans could possibly be good companions for God, who is omniscient, omnipotent, and eternal. Stating that God created us for the purpose of companionship implies that God was lacking something- he needed a friend or was lonely. Companionship also connotes some kind of equality, a give and take if you will. Obviously there is nothing you can give God that he needs or wants. God placed us on earth where we are separated from Him and not able to see him or carry on two way conversations which are the basis of most relationships. I know you will say that is was our sin that led to this point, but God knew from the beginning exactly how it was going to turn out. So why would God go to all the trouble to create perfect companions that he KNEW were going to be such lousy friends? God, all powerful and all knowing, also knows Satan will be a lot of trouble for His frail flesh and bones creation but doesn't use His mighty power to keep us safe. God can destroy Satan, right?
On the one hand you want to argue that God is so great and good and powerful that we cannot fathom Him and on the other you anthropomorphize Him as the giant playmate in the sky who loves us. You ascribe many human emotions and actions to God that seem misplaced. What you have stated is a very simplified, childish version of the Almighty.
In the society of Heaven, things are run justly and true and the population of Heaven worship the creator because he was worthy of worship.
Which is why I think Ray's approach is wrong. If you come to God because you fear him or to avoid hell you are not worshipping God because he is worthy. Or if you take Pascal's wager it is because the perceived cost/benefit ratio is in your favor, not because of the intrinsic greatness of God.
Could you explain where this society of Heaven is located? Is it in this universe? This dimension? Is it another planet with cities and houses? Or is it just an analogy of something that exists in your mind?
that's "cite" not "site" oops
ReplyDeleteWhen man was created he was to be a companion, a friend, as sons and daughters with free will. You'll need to read much further to find this:
ReplyDeleteEphesians 1:4-6 (New International Version)
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
Why God created us, well I don't know for certain. Maybe it's like my desire for chocolate cake. God desired more to his existence, so he created all of us.
Genesis 1:26 (New International Version)
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness ...”
Humans fell away, yes through sin. But God knew a long time before me and you came into this world you'd be on that side and I'd be on this side. Sure God knows what's going to happen but that doesn't mean its set in stone. It may be like novel, you might know how it begins and ends, but it's the story that makes the book good. That's the power of free will.
Far as being a friend to a eternal God, I've read that there is no real reason that a human should die. Our bodies have the ability to create new cells. While the old ones go down the toilet, grow as hair, get clipped off, or shed off. In early Genesis it wasn't uncommon to see people living 900 years. Till God limited us in with a life span.
Genesis 6:3 (New International Version)
Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years."
Then we have polluted our planet and bred illness so a person is very lucky to get to 85 anymore. I looked online and only 1 single person in all of verified history has made it to 122. But nobody else has. Why she lived that long, or even if that's true isn't something I can answer.
Some of us are good companions to God. We talk to him and sometimes we hear him back. Not always in words, but sometimes though peace of heart, finding an answer in a place you never expected, in miracles, or sometimes through other people. God wants, understand, wants us to acknowledge him.
Why does God keep Satan around? God doesn’t destroy Satan because he the punisher for sins. Here’s a good site to see a summary of God’s use of Satan.
http://www.broadcaster.org.uk/section2/transcript/satansummary.htm
I’m pretty sure I don’t anthropomorphize Him as the giant playmate in the sky. I'm not quite sure where you got that at.
You mentioned Ray's approach is wrong for you. Maybe for a lot of people. But it's not wrong for everyone. So I try to offer this option on my site for those who want to follow God for the proper reasons. I'm still working on this blog as fast as I can. I know some of my reply may seem a bit disorganized but what's in this post warrants a full blog post. Stick with me I'll get it sorted soon.
Rev:4/11 thou art worthy O Lord to receive glory and honor and power ; for thou hast created all things . [and for thy pleasure they were created] Genesis is a good place to start but don,t make up your mind till to Rev 22/21 the grace of our Lord be with you all . Amen
ReplyDeletethe Bible is a living book St.John chapter one in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God,and the word was GOD please read the complete book of John
ReplyDeleteSo many questions, so few answers. I know you are not a theologian and you don't claim to have all the answers, but there is so much to disagree with that I don't know where to
ReplyDeletebegin.
Why God created us, well I don't know for certain. Maybe it's like my desire for chocolate cake. God desired more to his existence, so he created all of us.
By definition God cannot desire more to his existence, you understand that right? So the chocolate cake analogy falls flat.
Humans fell away, yes through sin. But God knew a long time before me and you came into this world you'd be on that side and I'd be on this side. Sure God knows what's going to happen but that doesn't mean its set in stone. It may be like novel, you might know how it begins and ends, but it's the story that makes the book good. That's the power of free will.
Now one of the problems we're going to have is that Christians hold many different beliefs and I'm not going know which ones you ascribe to, but I assume you hold ones that are close to Ray's. Correct me if (when) I'm wrong. God knew a long time before that about 93% of all humans would fail to accept Jesus as their savior in the proscribed manner that leads to salvation. God knew that all these people were destined for hell. But God wanted companions so badly he didn't care how much suffering would result. Limiting God's omnience so that the story of life would be as interesting to God as a good novel would be to us is very appealing. But the Christian definition of God leaves no room for this interpretation and free will is an illusion.
Far as being a friend to a eternal God, I've read that there is no real reason that a human should die. Our bodies have the ability to create new cells. While the old ones go down the toilet, grow as hair, get clipped off, or shed off. In early Genesis it wasn't uncommon to see people living 900 years. Till God limited us in with a life span.
Yes, there is a good reason humans should die. Children. We can't all have children and nobody die. It would get too crowded. Let's say that old age does not cause death. Illness and predation still do. Illness is another word for a being that wants to eat you, they are just much smaller than lions and tigers and bears. Life is an arms race between those who want to eat and those who don't want to be eaten. Each time a new stategy comes up by one side or the other, it places natual selection on the group to favor those with better traits for survival. Like why the flea medication that worked so well a couple of years ago doesn't control the fleas anymore. Without death newer models could never come into existence and most or all species would become extinct. If fleas didn't have lots of babies and if some of those babies weren't resistant to the chemicals in flea medication then we would be able to erradicate fleas.
Then we have polluted our planet and bred illness so a person is very lucky to get to 85 anymore.
I agree with you that pollution has caused many untimely deaths. I'm not sure what you meant by "bred" illness.
Some of us are good companions to God. We talk to him and sometimes we hear him back. Not always in words, but sometimes though peace of heart, finding an answer in a place you never expected, in miracles, or sometimes through other people. God wants, understand, wants us to acknowledge him.
Once again, I question your definition of "good companion". God by definition cannot have wants. What can our acknowledgement mean to a being that is perfect?
Why does God keep Satan around? God doesn’t destroy Satan because he the punisher for sins. Here’s a good site to see a summary of God’s use of Satan.
So in your worldview Satan does not tempt and cause humans to fall into sin? He isn't responsible for evil or bad things? Satan is not at war with us? Cause if Satan does any of these things it horribly unfair and irresponsible of God not to do something about it. The deck is stacked against us if there is a powerful supernatural force fighting us all the time.
I’m pretty sure I don’t anthropomorphize Him as the giant playmate in the sky. I'm not quite sure where you got that at.
You and your kind do anthromorhize God all the time. You give him human feelings, motivations, and desires. Calling God a compainion is not the same as a giant playmate, I exaggerated, but it is bringing God down to a human level.
You mentioned Ray's approach is wrong for you. Maybe for a lot of people. But it's not wrong for everyone. So I try to offer this option on my site for those who want to follow God for the proper reasons. I'm still working on this blog as fast as I can. I know some of my reply may seem a bit disorganized but what's in this post warrants a full blog post. Stick with me I'll get it sorted soon.
Ray's approach is only good if you accept the means justify the ends. I think many Christians believe that but I could be wrong. I'm not trying to convert you and I'm not looking to be converted but I do like hearing why you believe what you do.
Milo Sorry I can't make a lengthy reply I've got a long trip out of town tomorrow. Quickly though I need you to understand God does have wants. Just because he is perfect doesn't mean he doesn't care for all of us. This would be if I was rich as Bill Gates, I could have anything I wanted. I would still love my children more than anything and I would want my children to love me just as much.
ReplyDeleteGod also did come down to the human level. Through his son Jesus Christ. I got to get sleep but I'll be posting more in a few days.